Data & Dimensions | Ep. 1 -The Future of XR Hardware at Work and Play

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Neil Barbour: Hi, I'm Neil Barbour, industry analyst with S&P Global Market Intelligence Kagan. Welcome to Data & Dimensions, a podcast dedicated to exploring the transformative evolution of the internet into immersive 3D virtual spaces everything from video games to digital twins and back again.  

Ian Hughes: Hi, I'm Ian Hughes, senior research analyst at 451 Research in S&P Global Commodity Insights, science fiction author and an honorary Doctor of Technology. And I've specialized in emerging technology for the majority of my 35-career. I primarily write and present about the rise of industrial metaverse use cases, as the multibillion dollar games industry meets the multi-trillion dollar operational technology world. I've also been an active gamer since the nineteen seventies, since well before it was acceptable to say that in a business context.  

Barbour: So we do have an interview with Dr. Chris Parkinson, president of enterprise Systems at Vuzix, to get to. But I want to start off by pointing out to or pointing to our recent research piece using S&P Global Market Intelligence Transcripts Trending Topics tool, where we tracked how many times companies in the S&P 500 mentioned the term metaverse.  

Hughes: You'll hear this from us a lot. The S&P definition of metaverse is the long term vision for the next phase of the internet, which will feature a single shared, immersive and persistent 3D virtual space where humans and machines interact with one another and with data, enhancing the physical world as much as replacing it. And it's really important that part about enhancing the physical world as much as replacing it, because that brings us into the whole world of physical AI with autonomous robots trained in virtual worlds, as well as different levels of interaction. For us with digital content in AR and VR, mixed reality XR, whatever the current phrase is, we're going to use for that.  

Barbour: Perhaps unsurprisingly, companies aren't really using the term metaverse in their earnings materials anymore. We clocked just three mentions in the second quarter of 2025, but they are still using the terms AR, XR, digital twin physical AI combine. These terms were used one hundred and ten times in that quarter.  

Hughes: And we've been on this cycle a few times. I have to say we're almost obliged to say that metaverse was coined by Neil Stephenson in the 1992 Snowcrash novel and the term there has been used on and off since then. Metaverse is a very prominent word going back to 2006. My experience of it, and that was when I was building virtual world experiences. And it's also actually on my son's birth certificate where it says father's occupation metaverse evangelist. Just for a little bit of extra historical element.  

Barbour:  Incredible.  

Hughes: And then the then the whole word went away for a long while, and it came back during the pandemic and around 2020, as people got to understand the potential of remote working, and then all of a sudden it disappeared again because AI arrived. And it's the catch all buzzword for absolutely everything. But the use cases and the tech for metaverse just march on.  

Barbour: Okay. Yeah. So that sort of sets the table for what we're doing here, exploring all these technologies and solutions underpinning the utility of 3D virtual spaces across a range of consumer, enterprise, industrial applications. So with that in mind, we're going to start off the show with a little bit of news. Um, the couple of stories here around, uh, hardware, which dovetails nicely with our interview with, uh, Vuzix later. First up, I want to mention the Apple Vision Pro has the M5 update, so it's basically the same piece of hardware. This is the, um, the VR headset that Apple introduced a few years ago that has passed through visuals. So sort of an AR VR hybrid, they call it spatial computing. Other people might call it XR, um, or one of a dozen other terms that people have brought into this space. Uh, not much of an upgrade here. I guess the M5 is a more efficient chip, obviously. So you're going to get a performance boost? I don't think there were any significant feature upgrades in what you read here.  

Hughes: Well, as you say, it's a hardware upgrade to make the thing a bit faster and be able to do a little bit more. It's not a huge leap, but it does show there's still continuing with the Vision Pro, even if there's odd rumors about glasses and things. Trying to keep up with what meta is doing with the Ray-Bans. But um, but yes, it's an interesting thing. And they've also rolled in Sony PS, VR handsets, I think. I seem to remember that was a thing that came along a very expensive addition to an already very expensive device, but it does what it says.  

Barbour: So that's right. The cool thing about it. So the original didn't have any controllers. It was all done with I think there was a crown you could sort of spin and that would go through different options and you could do some voice commands. You could pair it with a keyboard and mouse and use it as a virtual desktop. So the inclusion of the controllers is interesting. The partnership with Sony also of interest. But as you say, I think they are $250 for just the controllers. I think you can get the full PS VR headset unit for something like $350. So, quite a significant Apple markup there. Yeah. You know, the price stays the same on this unit. I think they moved some… We had them at around 500,000 units in the first year of the original Apple Vision Pro. I can't see them outperforming that. And they're bound by upstream supply components. I'm thinking particularly of the Sony OLED light sources. But even if they were to change suppliers on there, there are some constraints on getting those components into the units. So even if they wanted to sell a lot of units, they probably couldn't. So maybe keeping it at this, this price point makes sense for now. 

Hughes: And you mentioned the crown on it, the little dial to be able to adjust the amount of, um, reality that you deal with in a pass through headset, which is kind of a really nice thing. When it first came out, I was intrigued by that notion of completely immersed me or in in digital content or don't. And then all the shades in between, which is, is something we often have trouble explaining to people anyway, when we talk about AR and VR and pass through and XR and stuff, but it being a continuum of immersion is a really good point that people can go and have a demo and see that and feel that in operation, and then maybe not get quite so hooked up on the terminology of AR and VR  

Barbour: That's such a good point and such a fun unit. I don't have one myself, but I have demoed it a couple times. Um, it always makes a pretty good show of itself, not necessarily as a consumer device at that price. You know, we heard there was some interest around enterprise customers over the past year sort of picking up steam. So maybe that's what this is addressing. So, let's talk about the other big headset news. Samsung Galaxy was introduced, or Samsung made it public today, Oct. 22, we're recording. Ian, I think you've had a little more time to look at this thing than I have. So why don't you walk us through some of the headlines here?  

Hughes: Well, this is a thing that's at least half the price of the Apple headset, but it does look very, very similar, I think, to say fair to say, but it is it is an XR and mixed reality mixture of AR and VR that it that it can do and, and it's a collaboration between Samsung and Google and it's got Snapdragon processors in it as well. But the Google part of it is to bring things from the kind of, well, it's the Android ecosystem because Android XR. But it's bringing Gemini, particularly Google's multimodal AI, into the headset. So it's able to deal with hearing you talking about what it's seeing, listening to what you're saying. And so it's got a full LLM gen AI integration, if you like, into the headset, along with all the other things that we'd expect with the way that you maybe move windows around and point at things and say things and nod your head and merge things with them, digital and physical. So it looks it looks an interesting piece of kit. And it's a competitor clearly in that price. It's half the price, but it's still very expensive and it's a competitor, but illustrates a different open source architecture with Android XR to the more closed Apple OS, right?  

Barbour: I think you made the point, as we were getting ready for the show that is leveraging the multimodal AI in a way that Apple really hasn't been able to with its headset. And one of the things we'll talk with Dr. Chris Parkinson later about is how difficult it is to, uh, get inputs into these devices. So opening up natural language commands to put data in and pull it out, uh, with a more robust AI toolset. I mean, I don't want to use the term game changer here, but it could be a pretty significant step forward.  

Hughes: Being able to do to exploit the multimodal nature of these things in a way that's natural. If putting a headset on counts as natural, but is it's a more natural way to say that to bring the AI to people, so you get it with the meta glasses, the Ray-Bans, and the Oakleys that you have a degree of conversation with Meta AI, and it has a little bit of integration to some other things, and it can tell you what it's looking at, but it's not yet a full kind of flowing conversation, unlike the ones you're going to get with Gemini. And you can do the kind of Gemini stuff on your on your phone if you like as well. But it's putting it in that spatial context with all the extra bells and whistles that's going to be interesting.  

Barbour: So half the price, you know, we get it under the $2,000 psychological barrier, if so that exists. I'm looking at this like, is this a consumer device? You could… like a high-end laptop might cost $1,600. Um, I don't know. I'm seeing a picture here with controllers, does it… I wonder if it comes with those. Kind of assuming it might. I still sort of get the impression, though, that they're going to launch this with a lot of consume-leaning use cases and then position it as more of an enterprise headset down the line until they can maybe get the price under at least $1,000. I don't know, what's your impressions along those lines, if any? 

Hughes: Well, I mean, we've got a range a nice range now haven't we, of Meta Quest has headsets which are very accessible. Yeah, a few hundred dollars effectively. And so they couldn't price it down near that because it would seem a cheaper device. So they've had to do prestige pricing because it's doing a whole lot of extra gubbins. And then also at the same time just having a dig at Apple and just going in. So it's a that gap was there to fill. So regardless of what the price was they're kind of going well. We're a bit of both and maybe trying to be a bit more consumer, but it is a lot of money for. I mean, we love this stuff. I mean, I buy, I got loads of headsets in my room here and stuff like that, and I always have. But there just comes a point of, well, does that fit with life and does that work with my stuff? And for instance, if you're in the Apple ecosystem, it doesn't as well. That's the point. It's trying to get everything on Android. But the open source nature of things is very attractive to me. And it's like, well, you know, that's it's almost, almost doable, isn't it? Do I, do I not? So, so if I'm thinking, I mean, I'm an early adopter and if I'm thinking like that and I'm not going, Definitely yes. I'm not saying I'm the ultimate on that, but there's something missing or something going on.  

Barbour: Do you have an Apple Vision Pro at your house? 

Hughes: Exactly the same reason. Because it's too expensive and it doesn't fit with the work ecosystem, so I can't work on it very easily because we're all on windows machines and things. And there's lots of, you know, corporate lockdown and things that have to be in place for security, which makes sense. So it becomes an entertainment device. And for entertainment, I've got the quest. So that's cheaper to the point where we've got several in the house so everyone can use one if they want to. So that's the interesting rub there, isn't it?  

Barbour: Headsets and glasses not quite on the level of bring your own device yet. Maybe quest is a little closer. I somehow doubt that that would be seamless, but yeah.  

Hughes: I think the glasses are probably easier because.  

Barbour: Oh probably One more piece of hardware news I want to talk about here before we get into the Vuzix interview is, um, Ian, are you ready for smart contact lenses? 

Hughes: Oh, yes. Um, so the principle of the smart contact lens has been bouncing around for, again, decades. And there are a number of high-profile ones that were going really well. And then something happened. And it's, it's difficult to, um, to do the things that we expect from contact lenses from, from a sci fi point of view and all the challenges that all these headsets have. Yeah. Sharing content and stuff. But to be able to do something is, is interesting. But. it's almost easier to have eyes replaced than it is to put a contact lens in because of heat and things like that. And I did a little study on that about ten years ago. I think I wrote a report as part of four hundred and one research on the future of um of these how we get that information to us and contact lenses were one and kind of proper removal of limbs and eyes and things to replace them in the proper cybernetic future were another. And it was almost, it was almost easy to do cybernetic stuff XPANCEO research on natural science.  

Barbour: Xpanceo Research on Natural Science are up to the challenge. Or at least they say they are. They took a $250 million in a funding round recently to develop smart contact lenses with built in displays capable of replicating visual data from other connected devices, as well as offering users optical augmentation, such as night vision and digital zoom. You know, as you say, I've talked to, um, or brought up the idea of smart contact lenses with different waveguide component manufacturers and other stakeholders in the smart glasses industry, and they look at you like you're from another planet. Rightfully so. This is probably a long way off. Even if they have solved core fundamental technologies issued. That said, they said they can get a working prototype up by the end of 2026. Obviously a very aggressive timeline. Something, uh, something to keep an eye on.  

Hughes: excuse the pun, but I look forward to seeing it. But anyway, Neil, so this podcast, as well as us two talking about metaverse, you're also our roving reporter and to quote a very old UK comedy show called Nathan Barley, you're a self-facilitating media node. And so you've started with this interview with Vuzix. Yes.  

Barbour: I'll take the compliment I guess. Yeah. So I want to talk about where we are now in terms of AR wearables. Um, you know, we talked about the headsets, uh, and now we're going to talk about Vuzix, uh, their story goes all the way back to 1997, when Paul Travers founded the company. They provide smart glasses. So smaller form factor, and they're primarily feeding industrial and warehouse workers to help them navigate the factory floor factory floor and with remote assistance. Think about warehouse part picking. That's kind of their bread and butter. So with that long view of experience, we thought it might be interesting to get their perspective on a market that seems like it's on the verge of breaking through.  

Barbour:  Hello, I'm Neil Barber, TMT industry analyst with S&P Global Market Intelligence. Kagan. And today I'm talking with Doctor Chris Parkinson, president of enterprise systems with Vuzix, which is a developer of AR wearables. Chris, welcome to the show. How are you?  

Chris Parkinson: Hi, Neil. I'm very well. Thank you for having me. Very happy to be here. So why don't you start off by telling us a little more about Vuzix and what your mission is there?  

Parkinson: Certainly, yes. Uh, Vuzix is a publicly traded company based out of Rochester, New York. Um, about one hundred people in size. And they've been knocking on the door of this space for about thirty years, um, really trailblazing through wearable computing and vision systems over the years, led by a CEO of Paul Travers. In its current iteration, it essentially is two parts to the company. One part is making optical systems that form the heart of smart glasses. By that I mean, we call it the waveguide displays. These are the lenses of your glasses that now have an invisible but built in display into them so that you can wear glasses that look normal but can feed you full of information. So Vuzix has established itself over the years as a world leader in these waveguide optics. So that's what half of the company does. And the other half of the company then takes these products, takes these optical systems, and they make products that they sell to the enterprise so that the enterprise workers can really benefit from wearable computing.  

Barbour: So the differentiation there, uh, of waveguide is different from birdbath optics, which we've seen in a lot of companies like, let's say Xreal, who kind of targets the consumer end of the market. But you're talking about waveguide, which has a smaller form factor, is more practical for translucent lenses, stuff like that.  

Parkinson: That's exactly right. Yeah. So birdbath are the best option right now to get small form factor displays near your head. But when it comes to things like consumers, consumers aren't going to put up with any level of bulk. They want something that just looks like a pair of glasses, a thin, skinny, and that's what the waveguides bring to the table. They're very much more difficult to manufacture and design than a birdbath optic, which is why so few people are doing it. but it's also why Vuzix stands out in this crowded field.  

Barbour: So I think when most of us think of Vuzix as a hardware solution, we kind of think of warehouse part picking that kind of assisted factory floor worker model. I mean, is that still a fair assumption or what's changing, uh, around the go to market strategy for Vuzix, if anything?  

Parkinson: Yeah, I think that's a fair assumption. For the last ten years or so, where Vuzix has taken the miniaturization of this wearable computing and been able to assemble a headset, head-wearable computers that are rugged and suitable for industrial use. And quite often, that has translated into wearing in the warehouse to enable more efficient picking within the warehouse. Um, so that's been going on for the last ten years. But in parallel, this waveguide development has been going on, and that's coming to fruition now. So you'll start to hear more about Vuzix in this waveguide, um, capability in both making products but also making components that go into consumer products. Military products and enterprise products worldwide. So you're going to hear more about that part of the business for the next couple of years. But in the meantime, we'll then reboot the devices that go into warehouses and bring some really cool ones to the table next year. So you'll hear more on that side of Vuzix next year as well.  

Barbour: Right. So you're talking about, um, sort of extending Vuzix's capabilities as more of a partner with other vendors or sovereigns or developers of end products.  

Parkinson: That's right. So when I said Vuzix is essentially two companies now within one, the one half that makes the waveguides, they are making them for the world to use. So they then sell them as an OEM product that can be embedded into other people's smart glasses, and that can be consumer, that can be medical, that can be defense and enterprise. So that's the one half. And the other half that I'm responsible for is actually making finished products, finished wearable computing, using those components for the enterprise explicitly.  

Barbour: So when you're looking at enterprise customers, what's sort of the key personas that you're trying to find in the market? Or maybe put another way, what are the, what are the killer use cases that you're selling to those enterprise customers?  

Parkinson: Um, the killer use case, I mean, for one is it's the term hands free computing, because right now everyone's got smartphones, whether they're rugged or not, and they do a really good job of getting most people through their enterprise life. Except when you need to have your hands free, i.e. you're doing something with your hands in your work, and that could be with gloves on. Potentially, you could have tools in your hand because you're working and all that time it's very difficult to then be operating a smartphone and be looking at the smartphone screen whilst you've got your head, for example, in the engine of a car trying to fix things. So that's the killer app the smart glasses bring to you. It brings all that information right into your eyesight. And typically these things are driven by voice. So you are totally hands free and able to get on with your work whilst getting the information you might need. So that's what we do. So when you then think about that and apply that across the enterprise, it applies to many, many places. On the very simple end we talked we touched on warehouse picking already. Let's say I just need to go to Il3, pick up a box and move over to Il4. Well, I need my hands for that. I'm carrying things around, so to have that information presented to me in a way that allows me to do it hands free, that's awesome. But then we get to the more complex side of things, where we now can embrace a camera that's up on the forehead, typically, and that's looking out ahead of me. I can share that camera feed with other people in my domain expertise, so I can actually share with experts. And this is called the remote expert or the remote mentor capability, where if you imagine setting up a zoom call or a Microsoft teams call, where the remote team is looking through my head, as it were, through the camera and talking to me in real time. This allows the remote experts to guide you through complicated tasks that you may need help with. Um, so that's another wonderful use case that spans right across the enterprise. For example. Um, a lot of hospitals, a lot of ambulances are now looking at what they call the ambulance of the future, where the ambulance is equipped with 5G networking capability already, and then the paramedics attending scenes, they want to live stream that scene right into the ER so that when they actually get the patient loaded into the ambulance and start heading off into the hospital, the hospital is already aware of what the inbound patient is suffering from and are ready to treat more effectively. So that's a wonderful use case where that live video feed is essential, but you can't. The nurses and paramedics can't be holding cameras to do that because they're busy treating.  

Barbour Right. Yeah. So are you guys developing that software stack that as you say, um, you could hop on a Teams call. Um, are you partnering with Microsoft to bring that software suite into the Vuzix ecosystem, or are you standing or some similar solution, or are you standing up your own software suite to go along with the hardware?  

Parkinson: Um, a bit of both in a way. Um, the thing that we are particularly good at, at V6 in that domain is the, the user interface. It's quite different writing applications that live on a smart glass than it is a phone. So when companies say, oh, we're going to take our software and put it on the glasses, They basically just try and take their Android apps and drop it on the glasses. And you've seen a lot of that go well. So what we're very good at is actually setting up guidelines and saying, look, this is how you use speech, this is how you use a display and how you do for this form factor. And given that we can help customers, so many customers are writing their own applications. Um, we work with Microsoft, work with Zoom, we work with all the leading two-way video chat vendors to bring versions of those apps to the glasses that we can have our touch and feel on to make sure it's an optimal experience for the user.  

Barbour:  That's interesting. And you say to, um, you know, you connect with, uh, an expert on the other line, say you're looking at a complex piece of machinery and you need some remote assistance. Uh, you know, is there an opportunity? And I'm pretty sure I know the answer here. Is there an opportunity to bring generative AI and large language models into the loop here to, um, sort of automate some of that process as well? Are you guys looking into that?  

Parkinson: Oh, absolutely. Yes. I think that's the fascinating how this field has evolved over the years. It just just three or four years ago the big use case was this remote expert. But of course that doesn't scale too well because if I need help, I'm on the plant floor. I need to know that someone behind me who I'm calling for help is on call and ready to answer my questions. And you need to assume that there is a good, solid network connection available to me, which is not always the case in many enterprises. Um, so this is where the generative AI comes in. It's the ability now to actually almost have that agent pre-canned and automated on my headset, which is rather cool. So maybe I don't need to reach out to a real human to get my level one and level two questions answered. I can do that all locally without reaching anywhere, without bothering anyone. But then I still have the ability to reach into my level three technical support when I need to with live assistance, right?  

Barbour: Yeah, and it's interesting that you should say, if you lose the connection, as well, because we sometimes see, um, device manufacturers or SoC manufacturers talking about the importance of on device LLS, and I think that sort of underscores maybe the importance, you know, maybe that's a bit of an edge case, but there's still the idea that if you can run those level one and level two queries locally, there's an advantage there.  

Parkinson: Um, that's true. And I think you find that the challenge there is that whatever you're going to run locally on the edge is never going to be as powerful as what you can do in a data center elsewhere. And people are now already becoming accustomed to the level of interaction you can get on open AI or ChatGPT, for example, and you're not going to get that quite on the local, but I think so the industry is moving to the term of hybrid AI, where, you know, you reach out to the cloud when you can, but when you can't, you just can get enough done until connectivity is restored. It'll keep you going. So that's definitely an approach we're looking at as well.  

Barbour: So we talk a lot in our coverage of, you know, what we call the metaverse or AR, XR and all the accompanying technologies and virtual worlds, 3D spaces. But you know, the digital twins in their many forms and the overarching industrial metaverse. So where is Vuzix, um, on this terminology to win over clients, like incorporating the digital thread and moving 3D objects or, uh, facsimiles of real world objects into 3D space with a high degree of verisimilitude. I mean, is that a big part of your guys' conversations, or is that sort of down the road a little bit?  

Parkinson: It's a big. It's a big part of the conversation. A lot of people are asking for this. Um, we, we saw again about three years ago the big push in the industry to go into digital twins. Then AI came along and everyone lost focus for a little bit and said, well, let's just have a chat interface. That's a lot easier, right? But I think I feel now the pressure's back on to say, okay, we really want to be able to stand in this immersive room and have the digital twin there. And again, for the enterprise, I want these little arrows to point over to the fuse that I need to change in real time and have this real sort of 3D, immersive environment happening. So the technology has again evolved. Vuzix has now got the light, the waveguides and the light engines that enable super lightweight, rugged glasses to be worn. Qualcomm and others have been busy advancing the amount of compute power you can stick on the head or nearby on the body. And so I think the power is coming to shrink something like a HoloLens or Magic Leap down to a pair of glasses. And so that's why I think people are starting to get excited again and saying, okay, can you make that for me? And we have a lot of inbound asking for that.  

Barbour: Where do you see those kind of devices on the timeline? Is that something like, like you say, like a HoloLens in a smart glasses form factor… Is that a five year story or a ten year story?  

Parkinson: I'd like to think it's a lot sooner than that. Um, I think it's not the first-half of 2026, put it that way. Uh, but I think we'll start to see things happening towards the end of 2026 and definitely in '27. If I talk to Qualcomm, they've got a whole bunch of new roadmap activities coming as well. You've also got uh, one of the big things is a software stack. And the leading horse there is Android XR from Google. So they're very busy pulling that together as well. So all these things are starting to come and converge. So it's probably some point next year. The latter part of next year will start to see those technologies come together. But then that still takes maybe another year before that technology turns into real product that gets out into the mainstream.  

Barbour: Right. It's interesting that you say, you know, there was, um, a lot of the industry was rallying around digital twins, maybe, you know, three, five years ago. And then AI kind of came in and sucked all the air out of the room. And as you say, the attention has sort of drifted back to digital twins. But perhaps it's because the AI tools have accelerated some of the development in that space, like it's easier now to make a 3D model of something, maybe just by pointing a camera in it. I'm thinking of like the work Niantic Spatial is doing, things like that. I mean, are you guys looking at that as well? Is that, you know, merging the AI with the digital twin infrastructure?  
 

Parkinson: Uh, yeah. I mean, we don't get involved with the creation of the 3D models per se, like you said with the AI, but the where the AI comes in is that conversation earlier about controlling the user experience on this thing. So the AI allows wonderful natural language interaction with my headset in a way that you couldn't do three or four years ago. And so now you can just talk to the thing and say, hey, just like Tony Stark would do in the Iron Man days and say, hey, show me the model of this. Show me. Highlight the fuse or the gearbox, and I need to go look to so that the whole interface becomes so much more fluid and allows you to just get to where you need to get to without convoluted command and control or swiping or gestures that you might need. So I think it's fair to say all these techs are coming together very quickly.  

Barbour: Yeah, smart glasses were so resistant to inputs in their early incarnations. And it's the LLMs that are really speeding that along a little bit.  

Parkinson: One of the big barriers. So you've got this, you know, in the Magic Leap and HoloLens days, people are doing digital twins. And those devices then sort of disappeared from the market. So I think that's another reason why the activities disappeared. Um, but then in all the smart glasses, the user input has been a disaster. You know, if your, if your HoloLens, for example, not to pick on HoloLens, but you had to use gestures, which means the first thing you do is log in and meant poking your fingers wildly in mid-air to try and poke a virtual keyboard. Um, other teams have got voice where maybe you have to speak out your password letter by letter, which is not particularly safe either. And then other companies just have a few buttons on the side of the headset that you have to tap, tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap.  

Barbour: Yeah, swipe, tap, It never quite works out.  

Parkinson: It's all been a bit of a disaster. And even, uh, meta. Now bless them with their little, uh, finger gadget. It's still it's not going to solve all those issues. But so I think really it's going to come back to voice and now this natural language and the ability to run all this locally from AI is really going to help break through that barrier as well.  

Barbour: So let's double click into to what meta showed recently with the Ray-Ban displays. I mean, I think you've kind of gone over what some of the bigger hurdles are, but you can go deeper into that. But what impressed you about what meta is showing, if anything?  

Parkinson: Um, I think the benefit I've had from that is it's the exposure of meta to the world. I mean, we've been running around, I've been working in the space for ten years or so, and in our own little bubble, for example, our own social media LinkedIn bubble, we are all champions of our own domain. And you think, oh, everyone knows about what we do, but you step outside your domain and realize that nobody knows what we do, and no one's really aware of all this technology. And that's where people like Meta come to it, and they start to get this message out to the world. And so it's a case of a rising tide floats all boats in that context. So very much appreciative of that. So I think that's where I go with that one. Uh, as for the device, I see what they're doing and why they're doing it. Um, you know, we've looked at monocular devices. They display on one eye, for example, for many years. And we know there's trouble with that. For example, there's thirty percent of the population will prefer their left eye rather than the right eye.  

Barbour: Oh, interesting. That's such a good point.  

Parkinson: And for that population, they're going to not they're going to put on these glasses and say, oh, I don't like it. I can't focus on it. So that's a challenge. I mean, we know the industry knows how to solve it, but the challenge is by putting in two displays, the cost doubles. It gets tricky, right?  

Barbour: Why build one when you could build two at twice the price.  

Parkinson: That's right. So I think they're taking a bit of a gamble that they'd rather get seventy percent of the population on board with a lower cost device, rather than trying to get one hundred percent on board with a higher price, which won't get as many people excited. And the price. And in a way, this this event will actually cause prices to drop as well, because the industry is waiting for some larger volumes to come to drive the prices down. But and so I think we'll see binocular come shortly I'm sure.  

Barbour: So, you know, I'm looking at other companies who have been playing around this space. I think we mentioned them earlier. They're more consumer driven. But, uh, what do you think about the products that companies like X real or maybe Ray neo is a better comparison to what your team is up to. I mean, what's your take, where they are on the development curve and what they have to offer the market?  

Barbour: Everything I've seen there, they're all doing a great job. They're maybe getting 75%, 80% of where they need to get to, for example, the Ray neo guys. Um, so yeah, the TCL guys are really nice, but I think it's expensive. It's going to be an expensive device to manufacture, so that's great. But if you want to get mass market, that's awesome. And I think the bigger challenge I've got with consumer is the use case. Great. What are you going to do with these glasses? People are you're telling people you're going to replace the phone Eventually, the phone does so much to so many people, and to get all that up on the glasses right now is a huge task, even for companies as big as Google and Meta. It's going to take a long time to get there. So when TCL comes out and a lot of these other consumer companies come out, they say, here's the glasses and you can do real time translation, which tends to be the standard thing I'm hearing. Or you could do some, uh, some directional mapping.  

Barbour: Yeah, I've done a lot of real time translation demos over the past few years, for sure.  

Parkinson: And then they run out and then you say, well, what can it. How's it going to how's it going to cause me to put my phone down and wear these all day? So we're not there yet. No one's really found these great killer apps for that. But I think we contrast that to the enterprise. The enterprise you're going from day one. There's a job to be done, and here's the job we're doing. I'm not trying to replace my phone. I'm not trying to put Facebook on here or Twitter. I'm here to do a job picking items in a warehouse. So it becomes a lot easier then in that case, in that context. 

Barbour: That's great Chris. So we covered a lot of ground here. I want to thank you for hopping on the show. Is there any closing thoughts you'd like to relay or… 

Parkinson: Uh, no. I mean, I have to say I'm very excited to be part of this journey because I think the technology is really coming together quickly. The waveguides, the cost coming down of all this stuff, the AI, the 3D immersive, it's coming. So I think it's a really fabulous place to be playing in right now. And I'm looking forward to a lot of great opportunities coming with some big companies and helping the world. Fantastic. Yeah. Thanks so much, Chris.  

Barbour: So a growing universe of industrial and enterprise use cases as the technology progresses.  

Hughes: Yeah, that was great. I spend a lot of time, as do you possibly reminding people this is not all about headsets, not all about hardware, but at the same time it also is. So anyway, this is data and dimensions insight across every reality. See you next time.