MediaTalk | Season 3 | Ep. 39 - Sunday Nights and Streaming Rights: 'Tuned In' to New Sports Deals

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Mike Reynolds: Hi, I'm Mike Reynolds, a senior reporter covering the media industry with S&P Global Market Intelligence's tech, media, and telecom news team. Welcome to "MediaTalk," a podcast hosted by S&P Global, where the news and research staff explore issues in the ever-evolving media landscape. Today I'm joined by Mike Johnson, MJ, a research analyst at S&P Global Market Intelligence Kagan Research, where he covers the US sports beat. Mike and I — Mike and Mike, if you will — recently attended Front Office Sports’ “Tuned In” Conference in Manhattan. Today we're going to weigh in on some of the developments and commentary that came from the event, which featured lead executives from sports leagues and networks that carry them, as well as a few broadcasters themselves. Additionally, we're going to talk about a few other things that are capturing our attention in the wide world of sports. 

Mike, ready to recap, and did you enjoy the conference as much as I did? 

Michael Johnson: Yeah. Hey Mike. Thanks again for having me on the podcast. Absolutely. It was my first time being in person for that event, and it was incredible, such a strong day of speakers and networking. So yeah, I loved every minute of it. 

Reynolds: Alright, Mike, let's do this. Let's hit the scorecard. Do you want to go first talking about some of the things we saw there? 

Johnson: So yeah, I guess the first thing I'll touch on is Commissioner Rob Manfred was there. He was talking on behalf of the MLB, touching on some of the interesting facts of the new rights deal negotiations. I feel like we were really close to the final breaking news of the new agreements. He basically just stated there was great progress and agreements in principle with NBC taking Sunday nights, and the wildcard ESPN on the local rights, and Netflix for the Home Run Derby. And then there's an announcement as well as part of NBC's package of the MLB rights for Sunday mornings. 

Reynolds: Which NBC used to have. 

Johnson: Yes, exactly. Commissioner Manfred discussed a few things with these media deals, getting a little bit more complicated, trying to maximize the economics of the deals as well as global reach. Yeah, those are things to keep an eye on as far as the announcement coming here in the next few weeks, I'm guessing. 

Reynolds: I'm sure Front Office Sports was disappointed, as we all were, that he didn't use that as the forum to make the announcement. But it's got to come soon. As we get into the next week, we're into the playoff round or the wildcard round, so it's got to come soon. The other big hitter there was NBA Commissioner Adam Silver, and he talked about a couple of things, notably NBA Europe. I guess there's been some push that they want to expand their FBA, which is the International Basketball Association, will be involved. I think JP Morgan and the Raine Group are also helping the NBA kind of figure out what they want to do. He was saying the one thing though, from his perspective, was there's regulatory hurdles to surmount, I guess depending on what countries they're going to be in. But more to the point, if he's measuring up to the arenas that are back here in the States, he said that they didn't measure up on a couple of fronts: luxury boxes, amenities, restaurants, even media conference areas. I guess that's for press room and other announcements that they want to make. He said some of that's going to have to come together. But all that being said, Mike, I think he said they were looking at ‘28, that's not that far out. And we'll see where that takes us. 

Johnson: Exactly. He mentioned two to three years out getting the league launched. It seems like a tall task with all of the different hurdles that he outlined for everybody in attendance. Like you mentioned, the venue infrastructure isn't quite there compared to the US side. So there's a lot of work to be done before that league launches. 

Reynolds: The one thing you didn't talk about, Mike, though, is how many teams, so maybe they could launch with eight teams and build from there. 

Johnson: Yeah, that's a great point as well. And another thing he talked about as well is maintaining that competitive balance, that's right. As a league trying to avoid a top-heavy structure, similar to how the Premier League is running and things like that. 

Reynolds: Yeah, I guess he doesn't want to have, okay, four or six teams, we know they're going to be good, and the other guys are going to be also-rans out of the start. 

Johnson: Exactly. Yep, exactly. And prior to this event in New York, Amy, he made some headlines saying the NBA was a sport driven by highlights or something to that regard. A head-scratcher before this new media rights deal. Yes. Takes effect. But he backtracked those comments a little bit, talked about it in depth. He wanted to emphasize the power of social media and highlights and the NBA's goal of turning those highlight viewers into the live sport event viewers as well. 

Reynolds: Which I'm sure his friends at NBC, ESPN, and Amazon would be more than happy to oblige. 

Johnson: Yeah, exactly. So the other thing that I think the other big news again, and this is maybe more in the sense of prestige than certainly than tonnage Amazon. They're going to be in the Masters, Mike, which is incredible. They've only been in the sports business for the last, I'm going to say, 10, 12 years. And the Masters goes back to CBS in '56. ESPN's been in the game since the 2000s. Granted, it's only two hours on Thursday and Friday, the tournament, which would lead into ESPN's Thursday and Friday coverage. And then CBS will take the main swings on the weekends. But I'm impressed by the fact that Amazon is with the Masters. 

Johnson: I am too. And then it's showcasing how they're continuing to build out their sports portfolio with these big events, potentially hinting at getting in line for a Super Bowl down the line or getting involved in the renegotiated package with the NFL if they opt out in 2029 as well. So they're building that portfolio and getting to be a huge player in the media rights space. 

Reynolds: Absolutely. And Jay Marine is head of sports. They also talk a little bit about the NBA and they're going to celebrate the players, which makes sense. And at the same time, they're going to bring some of the AI effects that they use for their Thursday night football coverage. So it'll be interesting to see how that kind of plays out. But yeah, they're definitely a factor now for sure. The other thing, Eric Shanks, the CEO of Fox Sports, they've got a little event next summer, Mike, why don't you take us through that? 

Johnson: Yeah, the World Cup coming up next year. I thought it was very interesting the way he was speaking about the entire event, stating that he's not sure if people actually comprehend how big this event in the United States is going to be. Logistically, being able to broadcast all of these games is going to be a huge feat next year for Fox. 

Reynolds: There's 104 matches, right? They're up to 48 teams. So just on that factor alone, not to mention that they're in the US, Canada, and Mexico, and I think there's 15 or 16 stadiums involved. That's a massive undertaking. 

Johnson: And he also touched on a variety of different things. With the investment in IndyCar next year as well. They're having an IndyCar, NASCAR, crossover weekend. I think it's the first of its kind, right? So they're trying to build out their motor sports. They talked about the new Barstool deal that just launched as well. So strategic investments that Fox continues to make. 

Reynolds: Mike, you want to talk about ESPN a little bit. They continue to make news, the ESPN Unlimited, the enhanced app that launched on August 21st. And there's been no shortage of news. 

Johnson: Yeah, definitely. So ESPN Chairman Jimmy Pitaro. The first thing that kind of stuck with me is him talking about this new NFL-ESPN equity deal that just took place about a month ago now. And basically he laid out how difficult it was coming to an agreement on the variety of deals associated with the overall equity stake. He did highlight that the network is open to similar deals with leagues potentially down the road. How that looks, no, we don't know, but... 

Reynolds: And again, regulatory muster is in the way here, so we'll see how that happens. Our colleague Scott Robson, he said that ESPN and the NFL have been trying to get together on whatever may have happened, as you mentioned, about a month ago for the last decade. Certainly no easy task. 

Johnson: Yeah, absolutely. This one took a while. A few of the other things that he was mentioning during his time slot, RedZone is a big deal, a big part of that ESPN equity stake deal, and how open the network is to creating similar type programming across a variety of sports. He mentioned college football being one of those and potentially working with a variety of partners down the line. 

Reynolds: Yeah, if you're going to have a full RedZone product, you'll need Fox and CBS and NBC and even the CW. If he manages to pull that off, there's got to be a lot of give and take on that. The other thing about the RedZone, Mike, there's four 15-second ads that are now on the RedZone on Sundays, and the rank and file out there, everybody's all upset. You got to read these stories more closely, John Q. Public, because ESPN, this NFL deal has to pass regulatory muster. It's not going to happen for about a year. So while they eventually will be handling the RedZone, the league is always going to continue to program it. But ESPN's taken all the slings and arrows. 

Johnson: Right? Yeah. He wanted to make it known that they're not solely responsible for the ads this year that have already taken place. 

Reynolds: Yeah. No, he took it in stride. What else can he do? Again, public perception in this case is wrong. So we will see. I guess the other thing Ian and Noah Eagle made some news there as well, Mike? 

Johnson: Yeah. So yeah. During their time slot, they discussed the breaking news of the Netflix broadcast crews for the Christmas Day games with Ian Eagle leading the way with Matt Ryan, I believe on CBS. Yep. And then Nate Burleson too. Yep. Nate Burleson as well. And then Noah Eagle with Drew Brees who's trying to get back in the analyst game as well. 

Reynolds: Yeah, again, for those keeping score, those two games last year on Christmas Day, despite the fact that they were both blowouts, had about 30 million watchers globally, and they're the most streamed NFL games to date. We'll see what happens this time around. 

Johnson: Yeah. And another thing that the two kind of emphasized during their time slots was the impact of alt casts, especially with Noah Eagle during his career thus far. I think he was involved with the NFL Nickelodeon Alt casts back in the day, and how these alt casts are gaining popularity. Another thing I think Jimmy Pitaro showcased too was the success of the Manning Caster and the Monday Night Football broadcast as well. So alt casts are definitely having their place alongside the main broadcast. 

Reynolds: And in this case, the son asked the dad, had you ever been involved in an alt cast? And I had no idea about this. He said, in 1999 and 2000, he was involved with the play-by-play of what were the AFC Championship games, which at that time were produced in, imagine this, high-definition television. 

Johnson: Exactly right. And he said, I don't know who watched it or not, but one guy who did was Patriots owner Robert Kraft, an influential man for sure. He said, to the powers that be, all of our games have to go this way. We can thank Robert Kraft for HD and the NFL. 

Reynolds: Absolutely. Yep. Alright. Luis Silberwasser, who's head of TNT Sports, Warner Brothers Sports outfit. As we know, 35 years running. You could turn on TNT on Thursday nights and watch NBA games. That's not going to be the case this time around. For many, TNT, particularly on the sports side, was synonymous with the basketball league, not the case this year. Luis went out of his way. He talked about that they actually have more sports now. Can you give us a sense of their roster? 

Johnson: Yeah. So no NBA this year, they're definitely filling in the gaps of the no NBA. I believe the percentage he threw out there was, they have 50% more sports throughout the course of the year. 

Reynolds: That's crazy. 

Johnson: Yeah. It's just, between regular season and the playoffs, just so many NBA games. 

Reynolds: Absolutely. Yeah. And they had the French Open this past year, capitalizing on a newer trend here as far as the daytime viewership that has been increasing in the past. And then he also touched on a couple of up-and-coming type leagues and events, unrivaled. He thinks there's tremendous growth potential with that league. And then also Savannah Bananas too, as a unique property that does well for them as well. 

Reynolds: Those guys, a friend of mine was talking the other day. He went down to Savannah Bananas at Yankee Stadium, sold out two nights running, and I think that's the case wherever they play. More power to those guys. 

Johnson: Yeah, absolutely. 

Reynolds: The NFL, Mike, as we know, I think they have, is it seven international games this year? Five, six, or seven in that range. Anyway, down the road, Commissioner Goodell wants to get to 16, a full slate of games internationally, and Luis said yes. We are interested that way, provided that things work out, and WBDS definitely from the Discovery guys as well. They've got lots of flags planted throughout Europe and into Asia as well. So maybe we'll see if something happens there. 

Johnson: Absolutely. Yeah. So seven international games this year, I think with the current CBA with the NFL, they can have potential for 10 international games. But once that expires, I think they want to have at least one international game per week, and that's just a tremendous opportunity for TNT sports going forward. 

Reynolds: Yeah. Foot's in the door, so to speak. And, way back when TNT had a handful of NFL games as well on Sunday night, they shared with ESPN. For those too young, look it up on Google. It did happen way back when. Alright. The other thing is we did get some NBC action. Betsy Riley, who's a senior VP and Olympics producer for primetime, she did a little talking, and then I guess ultimately her boss Rick Cordello also talked about a couple of other things. Mike, why don't you fill us a little bit about what Betsy had to say? 

Johnson: Yeah. She discussed the upcoming Winter Olympics in Italy. She showcased, I think there was a stat that was out there. Peacock generated 2.8 million signups for the 2024 Olympics, which to them was six times their benchmark that they had laid out. So tremendous growth there that they highlighted. And then for the upcoming Winter Games, there's going to be that Gold Zone that was very popular. And then they're definitely going to lean into the celebrity storytelling aspect of the Olympics to help push that viewership to new levels. 

Reynolds: Yeah, she mentioned that they've got Stanley Tucci involved. He's going to do some travel-log type stuff, and I'm sure we're going to see many others. They were well served by having some interesting people on the ground for the Tokyo game. Cordello talked about, again, this is going back to the top of our conversation here, Mike, NBC Sunday Night Baseball and the wildcard playoff round, if that's going to happen. And he just put out another nice round figure that matches Mr. Silberwasser. Between Sunday Night Football, the NBA, and MLB, if that comes together, they're going to have 50 of the 52 weeks a year, Sunday night live sports. That's an impressive number. 

Johnson: Yeah, exactly. 50 out of the 52 weeks. And it brings me back to one of the things that he said during his time at the event. And he said sports have never been more important to broadcast TV, and having that lineup every Sunday night with a main sporting event positions them really well going forward. 

Reynolds: Alright, we'll get into the end here, Mike, but there's a couple of other things that we wanted to talk about in the wide world of sports. Why don't you start with the NFL is off to a great start in terms of viewership. 

Johnson: Yeah, absolutely. So I think week one they experienced the highest opening week audience with I think it was an average of over 22 million viewers per game, which was a 5% increase from last year, if I'm not mistaken. As far as the breakdown, NBC, I think they had the best Sunday night openers since 2022. With the Bills Ravens, almost 25 million viewers for that epic game. CBS, they had their best week one audience since 1998 with the Lions Packers. I think that was close to 24 million viewers as well. And then Giants Commanders brought in a huge number for Fox that week as well. 

Reynolds: The second week had, I guess it was Eagles and Chiefs, two Super Bowl rematches, but a rematch from last year or last season. Biggest game ever in September, October, I believe. 

Johnson: Yeah. Through the first two weeks of the season for sure. And I think that it was the most watched week two game in league history. Over almost 34 million. 

Reynolds: Saturday night was the first WWE Live premier event under the new ESPN contract. It was interesting because in the lead-up there was plenty of promotion from ESPN. Cody Rhodes was on, Triple H was on, they were doing the "quote unquote" car wash that they say the ESPN studio shows. So it'd be interesting to see if they come out with any figure, if they'll share that with us. At the same time, I think there were some people that are WWE fans and maybe should have read our articles more closely because there are a number of MVPDs. If you have it, and I'm a Fios guy, I can get Unlimited and the app by signing in. But there's probably about half the community. Those deals are not in place. So some people that were expecting to turn on the WWE on their TV, on ESPN, did not get that access. So we'll see how that goes, if there's any hue and cry against that. Alright, now we are at the end and we'll go back to the top again. Mike, when does this MLB deal get announced? Is the Roku thing complicating it further? 

Johnson: I think we're really close to the final MLB announcement. We could have been waiting for that Roku announcement. Another aspect of this too that could be potentially holding up the talks are the local rights aspect of the deal. There's a lot of intricacies and details there that might need to be worked out. But I think we're just a few weeks out, potentially leading into the playoffs here. 

Reynolds: That concludes this episode of Media Talk. I wanted to thank Mr. Johnson for being part of the Mike and Mike broadcast here, if you will. Great to hang with you, Mike, in New York at the conference and talking sports and sports media here today. 

Johnson: Absolutely. Thanks, Mike. 

Reynolds: And thanks to all of you for listening. We'll catch up soon on the next episode of Media Talk.