Masters of Risk | Episode 16: Nita Kohli - Kohli Advisors

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Yashi Yadav

Welcome to Masters of Risk, the podcast where we uncover what is top of mind for business leaders today. I'm Yashi Yadav, and I will be your host every month. Let's get started. Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Masters of Risk, a podcast by S&P Global Market Intelligence. My name is Yashi Yadav, and I'm kicking it off for the year 2025 with Nita Kohli, who is a former Head of Enterprise Resilience at Citi and currently a Board advisor. Nita, I'm so excited for you to be joining us today. How are you doing?

Nita Kohli

I'm doing great. Thanks for having me, Yashi, and looking forward to the conversation.

Yashi Yadav

Yes me as well. So I think we should just jump right into it. Nita, you know, you've got a lot of experience in the world of finance and banking. Your background includes working at a few of the large banking institutions. Can you just share a bit more about what brought you into this world and just your general background?

Nita Kohli

Absolutely. And I wish I could actually say my career path was intentional, but I think it's anything but. So for all of those who are looking at career trajectories, please, a lot of it has been able to just adapt and look at opportunities.

So maybe I can share that you probably realize from my accent. I grew up, I was born and raised in England, in London. And I was growing up in the '70s and '80s. And the reason I bring that up, not just to show my age, but if you -- for those of you who sort of recall, '70s and '80s was a very different time.

And being of Indian origin, the level of ethnic diversity was not as pervasive as we see today. And there was an element of not being different and a level of conformity. So as I was growing up and entered higher education, there was always a desire to conform or not stand out.

Fortunately, as I went through my career and as I sort of finished university and expecting to have a very clear idea of what I wanted to do with my life and my career was daunting. So I took a natural step.

I not only took a year out, but I actually went and deferred entry and chose to do and train as a chartered accountant. It wasn't because I wanted to be an accountant necessarily, but it was because the qualification afforded me the level of diversity and would still keep doors open to me because I did not want to follow tradition and go into the field of medicine or law.

So yes, I chose accounting. But the beauty with that qualification is that it allowed you to get exposure to not just different industries, different sectors, different clients, different parts of an organization. And so having studied and qualified as a chartered accountant as soon as I qualified, it was quite interesting how I landed in banking because it wasn't my first choice, but it was an opportunity.

And I always think with life, all my roles, and we'll talk about this a bit later, have come through opportunity, not necessarily intent. And I think it's really important to -- as I reflect on my career, I think the biggest thing or the one thing that I've been really grateful for is a level of diverse experience I've had exposure to in various roles in various leadership positions across organizations.

And I think it's the ability to sort of adapt. When you think about how much the world has changed and the days of the '90s where people were starting their careers potentially for the first time, it was a very different landscape that we were all operating under.

And I feel the need to say that there was an element of conformity and not being different in those days. So that fortunately, as time and as the world has moved on and evolved, recognizing your authenticity, what you bring to the table and being open to challenges and trying something different has really been foundational as I've sort of navigated my career.

And I think if there's one word that I sort of really sort of summarizes some of the changes and the transitions I've had through my career, is being a risk taker. And when I look at the world of banking and finance, which is constantly evolving in whatever role you're in, it's been able to take risk and operate outside your comfort zone and adapting to some of the needs and the demands of the industry.

So hopefully, that gives you a bit more sense. And if I had hindsight and I could look back, would I've done anything differently? Maybe. But I think each role has given me an opportunity to grow, to learn and get exposure to different people, different leaders and different opportunities.

Yashi Yadav

No. And I think the point that you made right now about being willing to take the risk is incredibly relatable and very true for a lot of people across different points of their career where it becomes very easy to stay stagnant or stick to the status quo, but sometimes you need a bit of a motivator or something that's driving you to jump to that next opportunity or make that next transition and really capitalize on the opportunity.

So thinking about that idea of transitioning, I know that you've had a few different roles in your career. You were the former Head of Resilience at Citi, but you've also spent some time at JPMorgan, at Freddie Mac and now you're running your own firm. So do you mind maybe diving a little bit deeper into what really drove that transition between those different roles in your career?

Nita Kohli

Yes, absolutely. It's -- as I've been sort of thinking about this conversation that it's helped me also reflect and think about how fortunate some of the -- I've been with some of the opportunities because as I said, I wouldn't have planned it.

There was no intent as I've moved through some of my roles with some of the opportunities that I landed. So I think one of the key things, like I spent the vast amount of my career, probably 15-plus years at JPMorgan.

And I think within the -- with the size of the institution, one thing that I really sort of think you know I've been very fortunate with is they encouraged internal mobility and having the ability to sort of transition between business lines, whether it's IB, retail banking, asset wealth management, and even functions within those divisions.

Whether it's corporate, whether it's finance, risk, is a testament to an organization because it's not always easy when you're thinking about a career change to navigate some of the challenges, the pros and cons as to why you want to move, what are the outcomes that you're driving towards.

And I've always been true to myself or I think that as I explore a transition and a new opportunity, I'm evaluating a new opportunity, I always think it's helpful to sort of put down on a pick piece of paper.

Some of the pros and some of the cons, right? Because in some roles, you will find that it's not actually a sort of a promoting role. It's not going to elevate you. But what it will give you is different exposure, different experience and maybe access to different leaders, different people, different opportunities, right, within the scope of that role.

Some roles may be lateral, as I said. And as you sort of think -- evaluate some opportunities, I think you always have to be true to yourself as to are you just looking to do the same role within a different institution. So you're taking something that you're comfortable with into another institution and continuing to grow and progress. Or do you want to go outside your comfort zone, stay within your institution and try a different role?

I always say that you have to be careful about the amount of change that you're willing to take because you also need to factor in what's going on in your personal life. If you're doing a -- if the role involves a relocation, it's a completely different function and a new organization, are you setting yourself up for an overwhelming amount of change?

So I think we have to be true to ourselves into how much risk we're willing to take as we look at our careers, what we're looking to get out of each opportunity as we evaluate sort of transitioning and use the resources open to you through people, through your network to help you through the evaluation process -- but I think really understanding the scope of the role and the amount of change that role is to what you're used to is crucial.

And I experienced that as I moved to Freddie, completely different organization, did not understand or know too much about the mortgage industry at that point. And it was in an organization there were very few people I knew.

But I was willing to -- as a point in my life, I was an empty nester, just recent empty nester, I should say, with both my kids at that point in higher education. That it was a great opportunity for me to focus on my career and take on the challenges and change. So I think it's really important for everyone who's at a different point in their lives to evaluate some of the changes as you're going through these career transitions to make sure you're true to yourself and you can set yourself up for success.

Yashi Yadav

So I am curious, I know that you mentioned that you did make a jump from -- when you moved to Freddie, were you doing the same job function just at a different firm?

Nita Kohli

Yes. So when I left JPMorgan, I was heading up governance for firm-wide business resiliency. So when I moved to Freddie, in fact, it was one, I was a Head of Resilience for the organization, and I was also responsible for crisis management.

Now crisis management was definitely a new variant or a new addition to the scope of the roles I've previously done. So to me, that there was a level of -- there was quite a level of change. And if you remember the time frame back end of '19, actually, I joined Freddie and then 2 months later, I was pretty much thrust into the realms of leading the organization through the pandemic, which was you know I think we were all learning at the same time.

But having being resourceful, having sort of maintaining some of the contacts with some of my peers who were still with some of the G-SIBs allowed me to really nurturing and learn the role of crisis management and eventually just help Freddie as many other companies successfully navigate through what was unchartered territory through the pandemic.

Yashi Yadav

Got it. That makes sense, Nita. And I think I'd be curious because it seems like throughout your journey in these different roles, there have been some key takeaways that have helped drive your success in the next area that you transitioned into.

Would you say that was the case for crisis management as well? I mean, once you left Freddie and moved into your next opportunity, was it elements of crisis management, maybe elements of other functions that you could speak about where you really were able to take that skill set that you've built and continue to expand upon it?

Nita Kohli

In some way, yes, I mean, the -- without sort of sharing too much sort of proprietary information, Citi's structure was somewhat different with the crisis management function. But as I sort of have sort of left the corporate organizations, the world of crisis management has become so much more in focus for obvious reasons that we're going through an era of immense disruption, whether it's geopolitical threats, whether it's technology advancements, whether it's political unrest.

There is so much threat and climate changes that the essence of what crisis allows you to develop as a skill set is actually a foundational capability that more and more organizations are seeking.

As they look about -- as they look at their capabilities and prepare for potential disruptions. So I wouldn't necessarily say that I had it -- I was able to transition that skill, but it was a transferable skill that allowed me to understand how to navigate and influence the firm to drive and manage through a disruption.

And then when you sort of think about review and lessons learned, it allows you to evaluate what works and what changes need to be applied as you move forward so that you can mitigate some of those risks and prevent right, minimize impact in the face of future disruption.

So it's an evolving -- it's a continual learning through these roles. And if I can add one more point you know what really has kept me focused on operational risk and resilience is think back to the 2008 crisis, the financial crisis where we saw a lot of -- like we saw the collapse of a major institution.

We saw mergers, we saw acquisitions as a result of some of the challenges we were seeing capital liquidity across the industry. So if you think about the impact of that crisis and now fast forward to what we're seeing with some of the regulation that's come out internationally on operational resilience, there's a lot of commonality.

And for me, I think being able to connect the dots and think about operational resilience, which is somewhat more esoteric, less quantifiable and more ambiguous on financial resilience is being able to understand the purpose and the intent and connect parts of the organization together that weren't naturally or do not naturally connect in day-to-day.

So that's where I think the transferability of some of the skills I've acquired through my roles has helped me and actually contributed to some of the successes in being able to simplify some of these complexities and help leadership, help boards really navigate through how we should think about risk in aggregation and have a comprehensive view of some of the risks that we should be focused on as an organization.

Yashi Yadav

So I think this is actually a great point for us to sort of pivot to my next topic that I want to discuss with you. So you did write a book on operational resiliency. So congratulations to you. That's quite a feat there. And I have 2 parts of this question.

The first one, just for, I think, anyone listening that's not as familiar with the term. Could you just give us a very basic definition of what operational resiliency is? And then from there, talk a little bit about what aspects of it you were looking to explore through actually the writing process?

Nita Kohli

Yes. So thank you for that question. And I'm going to keep the definition of operational resilience as simple as it can be. In my view, it's basically our ability to adapt and react. And minimize impact in the face of disruption and in the face of adversity, right?

So can you continue to operate and still deliver and continue to do what you're intended to do in the face of disruption. This is no different to how we think about our personal lives. Now I don't know how many of you, I just went through a process of doing sort of some wills and real estate planning.

And yes, I left it very, very late, but it's no different to how we think about our personal lives. What happens if we have an accident? What happens if we lose our job? What happens if my car breaks down so I can't go to work. It's been able to really try and mitigate some of the risks that you can control and be able to adapt and react so that you can still do what you need to do. In the face of these unintended or unplanned events. Hopefully, that makes it a bit more simpler.

Yashi Yadav

No, I would say, I think, yes, for -- I mean myself included that doesn't have as strong of an understanding or background in operational resiliency, that was a very digestible definition.

Nita Kohli

Yes thank you. And then when you sort of think about the book, so thank you very much for calling that out. I mean when I left corporate, I feel -- I felt as though and it was evident to me from some of the conversations I've been having with regulators and peers across various firms, various industries that there was still a level of ambiguity with operational resilience.

And that gave me the impetus to actually focus and share some of the knowledge and experience to help people really think through what is it that we're trying to do with operational resilience.

And if we take the regulations aside, the basic intent and the purpose behind it is very simple. You want to make sure that your firm can continue to operate and deliver its key services if it was compromised, whether it's compromised or a cyberattack, a wildfire as we've just experienced, geopolitical unrest, war, you name it.

So there are 3 sort of objectives I had in mind in sort of authoring this book. Firstly, I wanted to change the narrative on operational resilience. It's not a compliance function. It's a mindset shift. How can we think about driving business value and sustainable growth?

I think when you can talk and you can think about the problem statement and the outcomes you're driving in the view of how it can generate growth, sustainable growth and create business value for an organization, the conversation and the objectives become very different.

Secondly, I wanted to really push people to think in helping people understand, as you've heard me saying a few times, the intent and purpose of these regulations. Now hopefully, most of you agree, regulators aren't there putting out regulations just to annoy everyone.

It's not -- we all know that it's not always the case they're clear with their understanding as well. So there's a mutual learning through this process. But I do think there's one thing that is absolutely sort of crucial is what's driving the intent and purpose of these regulations and getting behind the regulations.

Here's an analogy I would use. People will say, I need the regulator. They haven't told us how to do something. So if a regulator actually said, put your shoe on your foot, tie your laces A to B and you tie your laces A to B, but you don't stop to question, why are they asking to put the shoe on the foot?

Why are they asking to do this? Then you may actually realize the intent was to make sure that shoe stays on the foot and this is the way you lace them, and you may actually have a different approach to how you keep that shoe on your foot.

It's a very simple analogy, but I think it's really important and all the conversations I've had with regulators even recently as last week, is really driving an outcome-driven approach that's aligned with an organization's risk profile and appetite.

And you can take that not just -- you can take that beyond the financial industry to every single industry, whether it's a Google who you know one of their foundational services is the a search engine, their platform or you take it to a JPMorgan Chase and their retail banking, their online banking services, you go to manufacturing or to Tesla or to Toyota to say they need to still produce their cars, understanding what the crown jewels are, what the key services that your firm needs to deliver and not everything is key.

It's just being able to understand that in a way in which you can really drive what you need to really continue to operate should you be compromised. And then thirdly, I know that was quite a long second point.

But thirdly, very simply, it's also being able to understand how globally interconnected we are. And I introduced the concept of supply chain and the operational ecosystem because resilience goes beyond the boundaries of your organization.

And as we continue to mature our thinking and expand that boundaries, the level of interconnectedness is important to have transparency and understanding that chain, that end party that we're connected with so that you can mitigate some of the risks that you can control and be prepared for the ones that you can't control. So really 3 key objectives I had, which really drove me to write this book.

Yashi Yadav

Now and I think that through your responses, we were able to sort of touch upon why it's important for firms to have a mindset around operational resiliency and kind of what the risks are that firms can face when they're improperly handling or not paying as much attention to their operations.

I guess given your background and having been in this industry for over 25 years, I would be curious to understand how you've observed the landscape shift or evolve over that time period. I mean, obviously, technology has grown the use of AI, cyber risks, all of those are large factors that come to mind for myself.

But are there any other areas that have contributed to needing to put more of a spotlight around operational resiliency for large institutions, not just banks, but even corporates, government agencies sort of across the board?

Nita Kohli

I think what's highlighted, and if I sort of many -- I'd say, many conversations I have sort of focus on the traditional world of business continuity and IT disaster recovery. And if you draw parallels between that and what operational resilience is, it's definitely a shift in the way in which we are focused on the outcomes that we're driving.

Business continuity and disaster recovery is very internally organization focused, very isolated in the outcomes it's driving. When you think about operational resilience, it goes towards the impact it's having to its end users, to the industry, to the market.

And I don't just mean a financial industry. So being able to take an end-to-end view and understand what it is that is needed to deliver that service is the first step in really understanding that shift that we're seeing in operational resilience. And operational resilience, if you think about it, is more relevant than ever, especially with increasing geopolitical tension, supply chain disruptions and all the things that you've mentioned.

So when you say to me, when I sort of have the -- when we're talking and we're thinking about why, one, yes, technology has definitely been an enabler. We've got access to far more information today than we had 20 years ago in the days when we used to have to go and research paper, physical documents to gather information.

And today, you've got access to information at your fingertips. It allows us to evaluate threats, see threats in a world that we could -- we wouldn't have been able to undertake 20 years ago. So that -- the proliferation of information has definitely, I think, been a catalyst in how we're thinking about risks and what's driving the landscape.

And then when you think about climate change and not to turn this into climate discussion, there's natural changes that we're experiencing that's also contributing to some of the conversations and the risks that we're experiencing, whether that means where I need to locate my business, what's my location strategy?

Is it susceptible to a weather -- extreme weather event? How do I need to think about this? So all these manifest itself as we get better informed and we try to connect the dots with some of the risks that we're trying to manage, and we prioritize what's important to us within an organization.

So it has changed over the last 25 years. And will it change? Absolutely. We're talking about the next decade, the next 5 to 10 years, we're going to see an immense amount of change, and it doesn't mean you have to be a fast forward adopter to get ahead of it. We just have to be cautious of the amount we want to invest and the risk we're willing to take as we look to introduce and integrate some of the technology advancements that are out there and available to us.

Yashi Yadav

So I think that we touched upon a lot of interesting topics today, Nita, around the interconnectedness of risk and why operational resiliency is important for firms. What risks can come into play if it's not given the right amount of spotlight, your career, the transitions. And just I think a lot of good bits of information for me to take back and really think about in my role and hopefully for those listening in their day-to-day roles as well. I guess the last question that I have for you is what opportunities are you personally looking forward to in the future?

Nita Kohli

Great question, and I wish I could predict my future. And I think you've got the sense that I look for challenges. And quite honestly, I think we're in such a transformative time with technology and not being a technologist, I look for a constant opportunity to learn.

I maintain a level of, I think, having a level of intellectual curiosity and potentially go back into the corporate world where I can really drive some more change and impact, not necessarily within the financial services.

But across industries because I think you know we are becoming so much smaller as a globally interconnected economy and are really understanding the intersectionality of some of these risks and how we can sort of converge and sort of drive more stability, I think, is really important because we are going through such immense change and just remaining adaptable. I think is crucial. So I look forward to whatever lays ahead as I go forward.

Yashi Yadav

That's really exciting. And honestly, really inspiring. I think that listening to you and listening to your back story and understanding how many -- just the journey that your career has played in your different roles and different functions and the book writing and kind of what's brought you to this point today is really motivating for me personally, to be honest. So I just want to thank you again, Nita, for joining us today on the podcast. It's been great having you on Masters of Risk, and I hope to speak with you again soon.

Nita Kohli

Lovely. Thank you. Thank you, Yashi, and thank you to all of you who've dialed in.